We are here to discuss the issues that affect our country. This blog is here to encourage, open, direct and intelligent interaction between all. I especially want to hear comments on the roll over policy which has been really bugging the hell out of me. This site was born based on the number of comments my customers and clients wanted to post on my Real Estate blog, which I wanted to focus on Real Estate but obviously people have something to say. So here we are, let it out.
Note: Even though this site says Caymanians, this includes the so called "Paper Caymanians". As far as I am concern, you are true Caymanians, and I would also like comments from Expats as well, we need to know your thoughts to encourage harmony.
22 comments:
Thank you Aimee. It is comforting to know that some feel this way. I merely lost possessions in Ivan but what I gained was the memory of the beauty of people selflessly helping one another. With some of the uglier sentiments expressed by some during the rollover controversy I had forgotten that. Thank you for reminding me. They can't take that memory.
10+year expat.
The Caymanian Position:
What a load of crap!! Caymanian women have sacrificed a hell of a lot more in the financial industry than your last 7+ years. They worked under the “2 year work permit training and then your turn” program that began over thirty years ago. They built an industry that allowed many foreigners financial independence. Here we are almost forty years latter and we have two Caymanian bank managers and no Caymanian hotel managers and an emotional blog site seeking to ignite the ignorance of a few “want-a-be someone else” Caymanians. Deal with the seven year rollover policy the same way you dealt with the two year work permit rollover policy.
The Expat Position:
How in the hell can I replace my foreign work permit holders who currently fall within the seven year rollover policy when this country has failed to produce qualified replacements for them. My financial customers are seeking to do business with individuals that are competent. My operating cost will increase significantly to import experts to work for my firm as they will be seeking high earnings within those seven years. I need to have an offshore location and downsize the Cayman branch. Cayman is a great country; the only problem is the Caymanians.
The Middle Utopia Position:
The seven year rollover policy needs to be replaced with a reformed education program, a national training and retooling of Caymanian adults, a cultural shift that embraces the importance of education, more emphasis on national pride. All designed and ran in partnership with the public and private sectors. Utopia ? The initial work permit holders in this country placed the development of the Caymanian people and the country equal in importance to the development of their investment. If the current work permit holders do not feel the same, the seven year rollover policy is necessary.
What’s the big deal?
For the life of me I cannot understand why someone who left THERE home to fly across the ocean to work here on a rock in the middle of the ocean can resent the fact they might have to return home in 7 years. It’s a Roll-Over policy…not a Roll-Out policy. As long as there is a need for expatriates in the work force then we will continue to approve work permits..its that simple. What could it really be that makes one want to remain here INDEFINATELY? Its not our nightlife and I know of many other beautiful Islands in the Caribbean with year round sunshine. If I had to choose one reason, hhmmm let me see..could it be MONEY! Why can’t people understand that a person whose only loyalty is to their bank account can never be loyal to an Island (Cayman). It will never happen, I also find it to be quite selfish that people who come here would not like to see there own country men have the same opportunities afforded to them, such as The Rollover Policy will allow. If they are selfish towards there own people, how do you think they feel about us. The expats who come here today, do not have the same mentality of the expats who came here back in the day when all we had to offer was a smoke pan and a pair of whompers. They are not here to make friends and don’t care about our culture and traditions. Listen, the truth is that Cayman has become the laughing stock of the Caribbean. Other Caribbean Islands have laughed at the way we allow expats to come in here and excel above our own people. I appeal to all Caymanian Entrepreneurs, do not be short sighted with the Roll-Over policy. It is not designed to work over night. Ask yourself, do I need 20 employees to sell two parcels of land. What I’m trying to say is that businesses might have to downsize or make certain changes initially, but they will all bounce back. This policy is designed to give the hundreds of Caymanians now returning almost annually with internationally recognized qualifications a chance to excel in THERE Island. In closing, if we have to step on a few toes to ensure my Grand children one day will be able to find a job on the Island they were born and grew up then SO BE IT!
I would like to respond to the last blog here.
Some expats uprooted their whole families to live and work on this "rock in the ocean" and actually quite enjoy living and working here. Do not tar all expats with the same brush. I agree, some want to come to earn the $'s but some actually want to live and embrace the Caymanian way - perhaps we should let them...
We better mind that we're dashing out the baby with the bath water.
WHY CAN'T WE ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL JUST GET ALONG?????????????????
I am of NO political affiliation but let me ask this question, if the UDP was the one that pass the law why did they not enforce it, may they had the foresight, of whats happening now.
What should have happened was, after the big status grants, give permanent residency to some ( and make sure PPM get their rightful share) the others roll over, THEN, impliment on ALL new permits the 7 year itch.
Not blatently running people away.
Its not what you say its how you say it, the Jamaican population was being run out from just after PPM gained power, some with 1wks notice to leave.
so if you get more than 2weeks feel greatful. In my opinion some people think that this will be like another 9 day talk, think again, if there's an increase to hire new permit holders, then employers will have to seek cheaper labour, so tell me again HOW DO WE BENEFIT!!!!
If we as Caymanians are not qualified to do a job HOW WILL WE GET? WE WON'T someone else will. And if an employer don't want to hire a Caymanian qualified or not how's roll over going to change that? The law is there now and those who don't want to hire us STILL DON'T.
People Learn to be self sufficient, stop thinking about working for the man until you retire and be creative and start you're own business. Woring for the man WILL NOT make you own any of the wealth in you're own country.
Think about being you're own boss, have the guts to try it then you will have a share of the pie, and not have to eat the leftovers, or fight for the crumbs.
Just like how you have the guts to tell a man "I'm here to stay & you're here to go" or "you on ya & I born ya", use that same guts to start you're OWN business.
This is a response to the sanctimonious hypocrite who entitled her blog "What's the big deal?"
You state that "This policy is designed to give the hundreds of Caymanians now returning almost annually with internationally recognized qualifications a chance to excel in THERE (I presume that as better qualified, superior more highly skilled and employable Caymanian that you really know that the correct spelling is their, not THERE) Island (which should not have a capital first letter). In closing, if we have to step on a few toes to ensure my Grand (no capital letter required)children one day will be able to find a job on the Island they were born and grew up (on) then SO BE IT!"
Are you too ignorant to notice your irony? You are complaining that jobs are given to better educated, qualified, harder working, professional ex-pats, in favour of Caymanians who have been abroad to be educated and qualified?
Well, you would have a much better argument if Caymanians were not entitled to be trained in the UK, USA or other none Caymanian countries. You take away our rights and I hope other countries take away yours. If I have to step on a few toes in approaching the UK and US governments to put pressure on them to ensure that Caymanians are prevented from studying there and, in the case of the UK, have Caymanians' UK passports taken away, then so be it.
You live in a corrupt, bigoted, racist little country, whose one piece of good luck was that your pirate ancestors for once chose not to kill and plunder the Wrecks of the Ten Sails in 1794, causing a grateful George III to grant the islands tax-free status. By the way, I'm British, as was George III. You're welcome.
I have tried very hard,since becoming aware of its existance, to understand, what we, as a nation, are trying/hoping to achieve by the implimentation of the "Roll Over Policy". To this end, I will at this point in my contribution, issue a general invitation to anyone who could be so kind as to enlighten me to the policy's higher objectives.In the meantime, for the sake of healthy discussion,I will attempt to share a few of my honest feelings and opinions on the matter.
First, let me say that I have not found favour with what I currently understand about the policy.It reeks, in my opinion, of some form of xenophobia, and for no good reason, as far as I can see.
It is true, that the Cayman society has seen a large, almost unprecendented (in peace times)increase in its' resident population in the last 35 years,largely due to the immigration of foreign WORKERS to these shores. But this has been, totally, by our bidding, born Caymanians having retained ownership of the Government and by extension National Policy, along with most of the land and property ownership, throughout all these times. We did, and still do, advocate a committment to "growth"..meaning, a steady increase in the GDP, paralleled by an increase in our respective household incomes. This, we have inarguably acheived, and so, persons privilidged to work and live (and to live in Cayman with its high cost of living, one MUST be employed!..)in these islands, currently enjoy one of the highest standards of living(read, wasteful, flamboyant, unhealthy, unsustainable in the long run((as is ALL current lifestyles such as ours modelled after the prevailing Euro/American capitalist system))available on the planet!) In fact we have done this so well, that we have created an enviable environment in which, there are more jobs than indigenous people..and not just a few more, but TENS OF THOUSANDS MORE!..surprise, surprise,we have had respondents to this demand for labourors... and we have gleefully reaped the "benefits|"of this economic activity( a much too large house...((we have much less children these days per household than our forefathers, yet live in houses that are four to five times larger than what they utilized..Go figure))..luxurycars/giant SUVS, the latest fashions/electronic gadgetry, food and other consumables choices galore((we now have to go to the gym to burn off the excess!))multiple vacations in far off exotic locations etc. etc. We have allowed, encouraged, solicited..unbridled(in a free market, democratic society such as ours, the Government's ability to "bridle" is quite limited, and consequently we have to contend with vague and indecisive "policies such as this one, whenever there is seen to be a "need" to do "something"..)growth in all areas and numbers in our quest for "more" of the "good life".However, it seems to me that, we have handled this quite well...make that very well.. as we are STILL one of the safest,most congenial,economically "prosperous" communities in the whole wide world, despite the fact,that the indigenous population is outnumbered by possibly 2 or 3 to one.(in part due to a falling birthrate, a trend common to "progressive" societies such as ours..((in more "primitive" societies, children are seen as an asset, while in societies such as ours, they are oft times regarded as a potential liabilty, that has to be managed and monitored dilligently, less one should /could be hindered in their "progress" by the early "unplanned" arrival of offspring whom we can "ill afford" at "this time")) If there are no hostilities amongst peoples, then the fact that one is outnumbered by his fellow human beings, in itself, should NOT be a reason for concern..in fact we have proven to the warring world at large that, it IS possible to live in peace and prosperous harmony with fellow humans from widely disparate cultures, languages, skin tones,and, places of origin. I challenge anyone to identify any major social issues facing us that has been predicated upon on solely by the fact that, we now have lots of "foreigners" amongst us. Besides the "social ills" that are a natural product of the path WE THE ORIGINAL CAYMANIANS HAVE CHOSEN (that of, for want of a better term, and for reasons of brevity..will be described as,chasing the "American Dream"..)..increased petty crimes, bank robberies,drug addictions,teen age deaths from car accidents, stress, and the various diseases that manifest from it, etc. etc. we have escaped relatively unscathed from the scourges (that in my opinion,find their inception in and, are fueled by nationalistic/xenophobic sentiments such as can be said of Government policies such as the one under discussion)that daily destroy countless countries and the lives of their respective citizenry..By the Government's own guarded admittance, we the indigenous Caymanians probably number in the vicinity of 15,000. If that is a total figure that is inclusive of the elderly and the underaged, then, the potential number of employables are small indeed. The reality of this fact is, there is no large cache of "Born Caymanians" languishing in obscure backwaters waiting to fill the 20,000 jobs being held by foreigners as we speak. And, even if we all were to "go to bed" to try and change this situation (for whatever noble purpose more "Caymanian " humans on the face of the earth as opposed to any other type, nationality, race, colour humans would achieve???), the "problem" would take many decades of "work", considering that, we would have to each committ to fostering families comprised of five or more members per household, for any "growth" to be realized.
I could go "on and on" on this topic but...
And so..time for some possible alternatives..
1) There is some argument for population control on a worldwide basis, and we can each do a part here, but this does not apply to those humans already here on earth.So let us share the fruits that collectively(locals/foreigners) we have managed to coercer from the tiny little Utopia we find ourselves living in,.. not being blindsided by greed and selfishness in the relentless quest for "more" for "me" and "my grandchildren" yet unborn!.
2)All that should be expected of the Government in a society such as ours, is that each citizen is fully prepared to "hold their own" in the competitve environment in which we now find ourselves,this being accomplished in part through a comprehensive national education policy, and not by the implimentation of myopic and potentially socially disruptive, nationalistic in tone,"knee jerk" in nature, immigration policy that has as its centerpiece, the wholescale expulsion of a large and significant percentage of their tried and proven, vetted and integrated citizenry, based on no other criteria than the fact that they have lived in our society, peacefully and productively, for a period of seven years or more!
Thank you all for your indulgence....Renwick Conolly
Cayman – Smell the coffee…..
Firstly, let me just say that this is the first time I have ever written to a newspaper (or blog) to offer my “opinions”. Secondly, some of my opinions may appear stereotypical – but I firmly believe they represent the facts of our small islands – and are not intended to offend. I have read with interest the comments over the last couple of months from politicians, ordinary Caymanians and ex-pats alike. One thing has become clear – there is a lot of resentment, unrest and finger pointing that if not stopped – will lead to problems for “our island”.
Point 1 – there are thousands (yes - thousands) of new “high-end” condos and apartments being constructed on “our island”. At the same time – we have many “post-Ivan” rentals finally being repaired. This is a huge opportunity that should benefit everyone and should be welcomed and supported. Failure to do this could lead to failing house prices and a situation of “negative equity” for many Caymanians. After all – with only 15,000 “true” Caymanians – the balance of the housing stock has to be taken up by ex-pats and others (status holders, residents etc). The situation of high-interest rates and an “unhealthy” housing market is certainly our number one risk.
Point 2 – I cannot see how the “roll-over” benefits Cayman. Simply put it encourages a temporary work force that will not invest (remember point 1) and simply look to make money during their time on the island. Why force good workers to leave – only to be replaced by “unknown entities”. Cayman has lovely beaches and is “tax-free” which encourages many to work here – but remember that escalating costs associated with schooling, accommodation, utilities and groceries can make the decision a marginal one. Remember Ivan – WE ALL helped to re-build and I was very proud of the efforts and the community spirit shown by everyone. Some of that work has now been undermined with many hard working and quality individuals are being asked to leave. I firmly believe that this is a “vote winning” scam with both political parties being afraid to change policy for fear affecting their chances of winning the next election. I’m sure I speak on behalf of many ex-pats who would never expect status or the right to vote (or even want it as only 50% of the UK actually turns up for a general election). Politics in Cayman seems to be about attacking the policies of the other political party – rather then developing “election winning” and sensible policies of their own. Let a work permit holder remain here indefinitely if they are able to provide a quality service to their Caymanian employer. Remember that we have the unique situation of having more vacancies for jobs than available resources. Let the Labor board continue to provide a platform to ensure that Caymanians are not “held-back” by unjust colleagues. The Ivory towers are a thing of the past and cannot be justified nor sustained in today’s Cayman.
Point 3 – Business in Cayman is “booming” and the population has grown considerably Post-Ivan. That said I believe that the island needs some form of population control – but not outright racism. This may appear controversial; however we need our friends from Jamaica and the Philippines to perform the “blue-collar” jobs that simply would never be done by the majority of Caymanians and ex-pats from North America and Europe. In addition, it’s not only the “blue-collar” jobs that are experiencing difficulties in attracting quality staff. For example, the company that I work for currently has vacancies for four “white-collar” positions that were previously filled by ex-pats. Not a single Caymanian has applied for these positions despite our advertising efforts. When asked, many of my Caymanian friends and colleagues are in better positions with higher salaries or benefits. I can only assume that in order to support the growth of business on “our island” – the population will inevitably need to increase to circa 55,000 to support the extra housing and jobs being created by sensible business growth. Now before you fall off your chair – an extra 10% population will mean extra revenue for all Caymanian business owners – whether it is at the Gas station or the grocery store. It will mean extra opportunity for all Caymanian workers as extra business generally leads to the need for extra staff. Let’s take the opportunity to learn lessons from other jurisdictions that have clearly got it wrong to make sure that Cayman get’s it right – let’s “Smell the Coffee” – TOGETHER!!
As a young, educated Caymanian, I must say that I was "baffled" to see how much attention Paul's comments received in the local media. While I can appreciate the fact that every man has a right to earn a living, I cannot identify with Mr. Aiken's belief that we should be sore afraid of the policy. The policy, which should have been in place decades ago, is there to protect Caymanians. After all, this is "our" Island - believe it or not, and we are becoming minorities in our own country.
Before we go running off about how much money we're losing, why not look at how much we're gaining in the process: Caymanians will have more job opportunities with companies which do not cheat the system by false advertising or "farming" out the work to overseas contractors. We'll also be able to regulate the next batch of immigrants - of whom some will be just as knowlegable and friendly as the ones we know now.
Caymanians do not resent expats like the paper said. Caymanians are fed up with the way we've been short-changed by the system. We've been stepped on for so long, that now we're fighting back; not against the foreigners, but against the past governments, against the UK, and even ourselves. We've been passive for so long, we don't even know how to fight, but we're fighting, and that's what counts most. All we need is to be more organised, and unified, and give or take a decade or two, Cayman will be ours again.
So, none of this really has anything to do with foreigners (except for those that keep us down). Lots of them are genuine, kindhearted, loving, community-oriented people, who mean well for these islands, but that is beside the point.
The Rollover Policy is meant to regulate the amount of people who will become eligible to apply for Caymanian Status.
What Cayman really needs is to follow what others have done, and not give status to anyone, unless they are an absolute exception.
Other countries such as Japan, only give out a Five-Year work permit, and after that, you can never work in that country again. You are more than welcome to visit and stay for awhile, but no more work permits will be granted to you. This is to curtail Japan's massively overpopulated country from growing, which adds to government responsibility and limits the flow of public funds. Why can't we do the same? Why does everyone have to feel equal in this country? No other country allows it, so why are we too weak do defend our keep?
Paul, you are a brilliant, gifted person, but you have to agree that Caymanians are being held back. Just take a look at the financial industry: An expat with a degree in finance will come down to Cayman and receive a (more than generous) benefits package, including; a top-notch car, a condo or house, a re-location fee to move to the Island, a bonus if he/she has family, and that person will earn $25-75% more than a Caymanian with the same degree and possibly more experience.
The "international experience" clause is bullshit. We all know that they only do that to keep their Caymanian staffing at its legal limit. Why should Caymanians have to go overseas to earn more when we come back home? Do we earn more when we go away for that so-called "experience"? No, we don't; we crawl back to Cayman broke and starving, just like the day we left.
But, if the expat leaves the States or Canada, or even the U.K. for the first time, where they usually couldn't hack it, or would take another 20 years to reach the position that they've been given here on a silver platter, they get all the benefits, and we get paid less (usually to encourage us to leave), and treated like a "boy".
And what "international experience" did they bring? All they did was leave home and come to the Islands!
These foreign executives are also supposed to "mentor" Caymanians to replace them when they leave, but they never leave. The Caymanian spends years grooming him/herself for the postion, and when the foreign director/ceo leaves; he/she usually appoints a (board-recommended) successor from the same jurisdiction as he, but never the hardworking deputy who just happens to be a Caymanian.
Think it over and stop waving the "I'm a Caymanian" flag around like it gives you the right to decide what's best for the whole country. Being Caymanian doesn't justify your decisions. But it should guide you to be more conscious of what others would expect from you, and how betrayed we now feel when we realise that your concerns are only for your own wellbeing, rather than the overall good of the country.
Paul, please do us all a favor, use your 14 years of real estate expertise to research the amount of property that Kenneth Dart owns in this country. When you finish that project, I'm sure you'll be able to see why Caymanians are concerned for their future.
For one person to monopolize an industry in that way is absurd! After all, land is power, and the more property that that "vulture investor" owns, the heavier he can beat the slave whip on our people.
Has anyone taken the time to investigate how much property he has? What if he owns more than 25% of the property in Cayman? Even though he's buying up mostly swamp land, land is land. It still has value. Put a limit on how much one person or company can own. Otherwise, government won't be able to control the development. Instead of "Go East" it will be "Go Somewhere Else".
Yes another expat’s point of view.
I don’t have any issues with any policies implemented by this country why would I..I am here on a work permit. I brought with me $150,000 dollars worth of education and 25 years worth of expertise to a company that was eager to “invite” me. I didn’t come here for any reason other than to make as much money as I can.
I signed a contract to work here based on the terms I agreed to and under those terms I expect to make money, I like the idea of paying no personal income taxes And yes taking the money I earned with me. Because the truth is and continues to be a business arrangement. I don’t care about your immigration policies, or your so called cultural existence (although I have yet to see any clues to an indigenous one), or your whining about expats who are stealing jobs you couldn’t be bothered working to earn.
I work here under a contract and as such can have it revoked for basically any reason with no recursive action available to me. Tell that to my co-working Caymanian who shows up to work 3 days out of 5 and can never be fired for doing it yet I am expected to make up for his work ethic?
Consider that I quit my original job, sold my home and left no ties or be forced by my country to pay income tax on foreign income. And when I return I have to rebuild all of that. Yet despite my contractual ties I do contribute to the social structure including big brothers and several rebuild Cayman initiatives why…because I choose to, not because you demand it.
It is interesting to hear continual complaining about all these people that are invited to come here from the U.S, the U.K , Canada and other countries, yet who cradles Caymanians’ when hurricanes rip this country into shreds, who comes here to help rebuild it? Yes the very people that are continually slammed for doing nothing other than fill employment gaps created by undereducated and inexperienced Caymanians. I ate Kraft dinner and hot dogs for 7 years and spent 11 years paying for my education and work experience did you? I owe nothing to this country I don’t work for Cayman I work for myself.
Like it or not everything that this country is built on and will be built on is dependant on that continual flow of knowledge and expertise, being surrounded by turquoise waters does not guarantee a steady supply of it or the flow of money.
To sum up I think many Caymanians are a little naïve and ignorant and need to consider how small and vulnerable their economy is and how quickly money comes and goes. Think about your current job, how dependant it is on imported knowledge and expertise and how envious and greedily other countries compete for it, the next time you make that payment on your car or mortgage.
I had earmarked a large sum of money to invest here with some of it set for real estate. But I have reconsidered why…because I don’t trust this government and it’s knee jerk reaction to citizen raving…and I want my investments as secure as possible it’s not some sort of revenge it is business.
You don’t like it? I don’t care I will simply go someplace else.
What a world we live in. Why is everyone blaming the current government for protecting the country? Is everyone just here to make money? If so, then Cayman is really lost. No wonder our children are being raised by BET and MTV while the parents of the day are either uneducated, or partly educated but still maintain an affinity for material objects. That's what it all boils down to. Money.
Caymanians that are opposed to the Rollover Policy are so because they are either of foreign descent, married to a foreigner, or work in an industry that depends heavily on foreigners. Caymanian business owners are trapped in the middle because many of them have tapped into the foreign market and lose sight of their heritage while trying to earn a living.
Expats that are opposed to the Rollover Policy are so because many of them had their hearts set on building their retirement fund using Cayman dollars. Who can resist the idea of a tax-free haven?
A lot of expats truly do love Cayman, but it's not about the good suffering for the bad, it's the principle of preserving Cayman's future.
Cayman is too small to sustain the constant development, and just as in the rise and fall of Manhattan, NY, we are on a path to destruction. 30 years from now, there will be skyscrapers in every corner, and we won't be much more than a city in the middle of the ocean. No more "Island Flava". In a few years, there will be a bloodbath in the employment office, the immigration building will be a colloseum, and Social Services will be the country's largest deficit. Bumper to bumper traffic will be so bad that we'll be considering subways and monorails to get around. Land will be so expensive, everyone will be living in a condo with 5 roomates, and the Cayman Flag will be replaced by a white s.o.s. flags with red question marks to represent how confused our people are. And foreigners are not to blame. We are. We need to take our country by the reigns. Sad to say, we need more educated politicians, and not the same "neighborhood" representatives that are in there just because people like or respect them. We need people who can turn this country around, who will not be corrupted, and will provide transparency to the people.
As far as culture goes; if we keep going the way we are, soon, we will be so intermixed, there will be no such thing as a "true" Caymanian, because no one will have more than 25% of their forefathers' blood in them. And what is that "true" Caymanian you say? - It's a person who was born here, lived most or all of his/her life, and would die defending his/her people in the time of need. It's a person who goes overseas, and can talk of nothing but the sheer goodness of Cayman, and becomes offended when he/she witnesses negative pulicity on t.v. (movies about laundering)
A real Caymanian knows everything about Cayman, including; its history, folk tales, songs, loves quadrille, coconut water, dies for Pirates Week to come around each year, and is eager to show a tourist or foreign guest a good time, or makes time to point them in the right direction if they need help.
A true Caymanian becomes offended when she is competing in "Miss Cayman" next to other (rather beautiful) women who know nothing about the island, and would not represent the Islands with the same passion that she knows she would. No matter how long someone stays here, if they are not raised the "Caymanian" way, then their soul is not truly Caymanian.
I know there are alot of emotions wrapped up in this issue and like many "hot" issues, it tends to generate comments from lets say the more radial elements of each position and with the moderates sitting back and watching. The entire issue of the role over policy isn't about ex-pats taking our jobs, its not about ex-pats driving up the price of real estate nor anything else. The purpose of the role over policy is much more simplistic yet cunning in its design. It is all about limiting Status resulting in who will control the vote and who will be eligable to run for office....plain and simple.
I think the "indiginous" Caymanian has two great fears. One is that some day soon an ex-pat (who has been granted Status) will run for election (not a simple task to be eligable to do that alone )and two, there will be enough "papered" Caymanians to elect them. Just imagine, all the cronyism and nepotis that currently exists...done away with. One only needs to go back a few years with the discussion of the draft constituion and revisit some of the ludicrous concepts the government of the day was considering to limit who wold be eligable to run for office.
So lets do away with all the "your taking away my jobs" etc and be honest to everyone. We want/need the expats because they are a source of cheap labor for us and we certainly wouldn't work for those low wages. On the other hand, there is no way in Hell (or any other place in Cayman for that matter) that we are going to let them get Status and be eligable run for election in OUR country.
I have to wonder if the cake is big enough for everyone to get "their fair share".
In response to the 'Brit' who pointed out the grammatical errors in my post 'What's the big deal?'.....Thank you. This is exactly the mentality we have to face today, this is exactly what we know goes on behind closed doors in our little Islands. They look for every reason to laugh at a Caymanian, well let me laugh at you fox hunting, Fish and chips never quite right, rottened teeth....Brit. What about the phrase 'me mom'. Is this correct or should it be 'my mother/mom'. You see, this nick picking will not benefit any of us..let's stick to the issues at hand. You don't support the Roll-over and I do. I wonder why that is. Our 'struck of luck' as you had it was no such thing, it was the caring, compasionate personalities of the Cayman people that saved your ancestors. They realised it and maybe so should you. Are you going to lose a little money now that this policy is in place? I don't care! With the wholesale grant of status by the previous Government I think we have more than enough reason to defend our borders. What I can't understand is why leaving the Island for 6 months after working here for 7 years is such a big deal. You are going HOME, we're not sending you to jail. Do you really hate your home that much. If so, thats not our fault. THIS IS NOT THE PROMISED LAND!!!
I know lets close the doors no more expats!
-Send the doctors home!
-Send the nurses home!
-Send the schoolteachers home!
-Send the police home!
-Send the retail service sectors home!
-Send the hospitality service workers home!
-Send the tender operators home who
service the cruise ship tenders!
-Send the university teachers home!
-Send the electrical linesmen home!
-Send the power companies engineers home!
-Send the civil engineers home!
-Send the garage mechanics home!
-Send the financial consultants home!
-Send all of the imported nannies home!
While your at it tell the cruise ship tourists,(like some of you did with the gays),to turn around because they are having such a bad
influence on the culture.
Once you are done booting everyone off maybe what’s left of the rest of you can gather around campfires and sing coombiya!
Ludicrous absolutely moronic!
Fear is based on non-understanding
and boy are there a lot of fear monger’s here.
You talk about expat’s like they are cattle here for you to herd
as you see fit.
You go to learning institutions in Canada and the UK to earn diplomas and degrees. Maybe you don't realize it but taxpaying citizens in those countries subsidize those institutions, so Canadians and Brits pay for at least part of your education. But do they receive a thank you; instead insults are lumped upon insults.
Maybe they should start asking for relocation subsidies? Maybe signing bonus's for putting up with such non-sense!
Stop talking with emotion and use that grey matter between the ears!
In response to post 'I know let's close the doors..no more expats'. Where do you get this crazy idea that the roll-over policy is aimed at getting rid of all expats. That is ludicrous, it's only intended on controlling the numbers and giving the qualified caymanians a fare shake. So in reponse to your post, if there are qualified Caymanians (paper or not) that can take these jobs then why should they not have them. Let's not get it twisted, there is no way this island can continue to strive the way it has without Expats. That's why work permits are being approved as we speak. No Caymamian is saying send all Expats home, it sames to me that this unfounded train of thought is coming from the Expats. When 1 Expat is sent back, in some cases 3 are brought in. Why would you think we are trying to get rid of the Expats? As far as our International diplomas, let me inform you that when I went to college in the US I had to pay a lot more than the locals did for the same education. The Tax you are reffering to is taking from the high tuition we have to pay as Non- Residents(Expats). They are called 'Out of State' fees. I'm sure you don't here about Caymanians overseas arguing about this, we pay our way and come home. In closing, I really wish this forum was used more productively, give your solutions to the massive increase in status holders that would result in 10 years if a similar policy is not in place. If we could offer people the right to work indefinately without the right to status we would, however, in todays World the EU would be all over us about Human rights. So what's the answer? Do we just open the flood gates? Our close proximity to the US does not allow us to do that. Imagine, we can't even give a couple of Cubans in a boat a slice of bread and some water without being labelled as assisting human traficking. What do you think will happen if we gave Osama status? How would we know who to give and who not to give? I'm all ears.
Very intersting, this whole knee-jerk reaction to a 'problem' created BY Caymanians, FOR Caymanians. I propose one simple way to demonstrate the true issue once and for all. Next year, for the week of 'Emancipation Day' ALL Expats do what a large proportion of our own Caymanians do on any given day of the week - STAY HOME! Shut down the entire economy for 7 days. No gas pump attendants, no dive masters, no financial consultants, doctors, dentists, nurses, 'helpers,' shop assistants, electricians, police officers, security guards, maids, bus drivers, or any other ESSENTIAL services which are underpinned by foreign labour. Let's see how long we xenophobic and racist 'locals' would survive without these dreaded and despised 'Expats!' Oh, and what a nasty (and perjorative) term, and so typical of the way these essential workers are looked upon by we Caymanians.
Let's be honest, slavery is alive and well in the Cayman Islands, and is commonly known as the work permit! Why do many employers prefer foreign workers? They can CONTROL them, by the use of a work permit that limits their options and effectively ENSLAVES them to one employer, otherwise they must pack up and leave the country on 7 days' notice.
Please stop all this ignorant talk about 'diluting the gene pool' and other patently racist arguments. There's a lot to be said for expanding the gene pool, such as PREVENTING such things as Cayman Syndrome and other genetic defects which are caused by interbreeding within a small 'gene pool!' Most of us who are here now, the so-called 'born Caymanians' sneaked into the gene pool when the previous lifeguard was on their lunch break or taking a day off to go fishing!
The solution is simple, and comes in TWO basic parts.
1. There aren't enough Caymanians producing more 'born Caymanians' to occupy all the job positions necessary to continue the Cayman miracle economy. There never will be unless there is a concerted effort to 'CREATE more Caymanians. Should this be a very selective and controlled process? YES! Certainly not the method employed by our previous infestation of the Legislative Assembly, creating 3,000 totally unvetted wholesale grants of irrevokable status! However without a way to incorporate the best the rest of the world has to offer, there can be no continuity of the economic success of these islands. The racist comments about the supposed dilution of the gene pool are totally without merit. There is NO CAYMANIAN RACE! We really need to get over yourselves.
Where did those of us who were 'born here' come from?? They had the happy accident of having been born to previous EXPATS who emigrated here in years past. We are no different than the ones who emigrate now, except for the fotunate timing of our landing here. What more right does anyone have to occupy these small rocks in the Caribbean just because of the accidental timing of their arrival here?
2. EDUCATION - EDUCATION - EDUCATION!! If the previous infestations of the Legislative Assembly had been more concerned with educating the poulation, instead of keeping them dumb enough to keep re-electing them, there would be far more LOCAL opportunities for education. Face it, if there were more educational facilities in this country (say half as many as the bars & churches), then the people would be far more highly educated and skilled than they are now. The same way we bring in qualified outside employees for all sectors of the economy, we could bring in highly qualified educators and MAKE our own QUALIFIED people. They might even learn how to spell and punctuate, and that there is NO CAYMANIAN RACE!
In closing, until there is a concrete commitment to welcoming those who will contribute to the development of this 'country' and thereby rewarding them with their own small piece of the pie, and educating ALL who live here, there will be no ultimate solution to the immigration 'problem.' A problem which is one of our own making.
Oh and I forgot one last, but no less important key to the ultimate solution. When the (newly educated) local voters start to pay more attention to the QUALITY of the people they elect to office and less attention to the fridge, cooker, washer, dryer and driveway or housetop they can get to buy their vote, then they will get representation worthy of their vote and trust! Is this why they are afraid of the better educated getting the vote? The gravy train of household benefit with the accompanying bad representation they have enjoyed for decades may actually disappear?? Hmm, now there's a sobering thought!
I so agree with ALL expats ALL calling in sick one day. One of the following UN days should be chosen and someone really take the initiative to get support for this:
International Day for Tolerance
(16 November)
In 1996, the General Assembly invited Member States to observe the International Day for Tolerance on 16 November, with activities directed towards both educational establishments and the wider public (resolution 51/95 of 12 December). This action came in the wake of the United Nations Year for Tolerance, 1995, proclaimed by the Assembly in 1993 (resolution 48/126). The Year had been declared on the initiative of the General Conference of the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO); on 16 November 1995, the UNESCO member States had adopted the Declaration of Principles on Tolerance and Follow-up Plan of Action for the Year.
International Day for the Abolition of Slavery
(2 December)
The International Day for the Abolition of Slavery, 2 December, recalls the date of the adoption, by the General Assembly, of the United Nations Convention for the Suppression of the Traffic in Persons and the Exploitation of Others (resolution 317 (IV) of 2 December 1949).
Human Rights Day
(10 December)
All States and interested organizations were invited by the General Assembly in 1950 to observe 10 December as Human Rights Day (resolution 423 (V)). The Day marks the anniversary of the Assembly's adoption of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948.
International Migrants Day
(18 December)
As recommended by the Economic and Social Council (decision 2000/288 of 28 July 2000), the General Assembly has proclaimed 18 December International Migrants Day (resolution 55/93 of 4 December 2000). On that day in 1990, the International Convention on the Protection of the Rights of All Migrant Workers and Members of Their Families was adopted (resolution 45/158). The Assembly has stressed the need to make further efforts to ensure respect for the human rights and fundamental freedoms of all migrants. It is estimated that one in every 35 persons in the world is a migrant, living and working in a country other than his or her own. All countries have migrants among their population.
Jax said...
Yet another expats point of view.
Much has been said and I agree with all that has been said in this forum which highlights the absurdity and shortsightedness of the roll-over policy.
I disagree with all the Caymanians who see us expats as a blood sucking, job stealing threat.
I humbly would like to add a few points of my own :
If I or any of us expats have to leave then the chances are that we will be replaced by just another new little expat who comes onto the island to see what its all about. Chances are that they don't know anything about the island and after experiencing it for a few months, and maybe a hurricane, decide to leave. Soon to be replaced by another bright eyed, inexperienced expat and so it goes on until eventually another committed, experienced person comes along and makes a meaningful contribution ... and then they are kicked off after their roll-over period has expired and so the cycle repeats itself and everyone loses in the process. Businesses are losing good solid hardworking people who have shown their commitment by staying for as long as time would allow. . Expats are losing because many have given a good chunk of their productive lives, settled into homes and acquired pets and possessions, and the island is losing because its productive, solid work force is being periodically ripped out. If I may draw the analogy - its like a good strong tree being pulled up by the roots instead of being nourished and allowed to grow, flourish and produce what the island needs for its prosperity. Instead new seedlings are being planted to replace the old and these are vulnerable to all the ravages of modern society and nature.
Speaking of nature - what about all the expats that put their heart and soul into the restoration of the island after Ivan....doing reef clean ups, getting businesses back on their feet and so on. If we were here just for our own selfish reasons and didn't feel for this island we could have gone home and waited for the caymanians to do it, or we could have abandoned Cayman by staying home or moving to some other more expat friendly island
What difference does it make if we all sign a form saying we will never ask for status or vote. If Cayman chooses to give us status then it is their own free will. All we want to do is live and work here and not change the Caymanian heritage or culture, each country has its own rules and culture and the majority of expats are willing to live by the rules of the country they choose to call home all be it for a while .
I do not wish to bite the hand that feeds me or to whine about our situation as expats but there is something else I must say. I have seen jobs advertised in the papers for ages (mostly in the hospitality/ service industry) supposedly to be filled by a native Caymanian but with the advertiser eventually having to resort to hiring an expat. Why is this? Its because Caymanians don't want these jobs that often offer low pay for long hours outdoors in the heat and keeping grumbling tourists happy. It seems young Caymanians would prefer better paying, air conditioned office jobs.
Do you think that there is any slight chance that the government is in such a hurry to pass this legislation and "bury" the type of rhetoric and headlines we have witnessed in our local news papers before the Florida Cruise Associations BIG conference here on the island later in the year.?
You bet they are.
Just imagine the impression that would be made to this group if this controvesy was in full bloom during that conference. Can you imagine headlines from our government leaders saying genticaly pure native Caymanians resent xpats.
What if expats all wearing the same brightly colored T-shirts with a large "Xp" on the front and back demonstrated outside the Ritz Carlton. Curious tour organizers and tour promoters questioning the meaning of the "Xp" on the shirts and finding out that these are all people whose employment will be forcibably terminated by the government and that they will be no longer welcome in the Cayman Islands.
Just imagine the positive media PR that may occur if this scenario ever played out. Is it even possible that an event like this could occur....I guess we will just have to wait and see.
I have personally come to the conclusion that even with all the dialogue that is being generated in the media and on this blog site there is very little that anyone who is opposed to the role over policy can do to have the current leaders of government re-think the policies implementation.
I do think however that there is an avenue that those in opposition to the policy can follow. I cannot take credit for the idea, that belongs to a regular contributor to one of our daily news papers but I will add a few other e-mail addresses for you to consider.
I hope everyone who opposes the policy (Caymanians and Ex-pats alike)and can see the potential damage it can do to the future of the islands will consider joining in a writing campaign to the persons listed below.
I would expect that those who entered the islands before Jan / 04 and especially those expats that have been here 8 years or longer who have had their PR applications denied have a solid complaint.
I suggest then that if you are concerned or feel that you are being unfairly victimized by the implementaion of the role over policy you pen an e-mail an send it out to the following people.
Cayman Islands:
His Excellency the Govenor
Stuart Jack
staffoff@candw.ky
United Kingdom:
Lord Triesman
Overseas Territory Department
Foreign and Commonwealth Office
otdenquiries@fco.gov.uk
Ms. Margaret Beckett
Secretary of State
Foreign and Commonwealth Office
otdenquiries@fco.gov.uk
Council of Europe
Thomas Hammarberg
Commissioner of Human Rights
commissioner@coe.int
Commission against Racism and Intolerance
combat.racism@coe.int
Mr. Stephen Howarth
UK Representative to the Council of Europe
cm@coe.int
If you so desire, you may even consider sending copies to the local MLA's.
God Bless the Cayman Islands
I have to laugh...I am an expat,
immigrant worker (albeit with 2 degress), temporary resident or
whatever you want to call me.
I think the real foundation for all this bickering is the warm climate..everyone wants to say they live in the Carribean, and that like a good buisiness model is based on supply and demand.
Those that started this country and fought to preserve it are under stress. I don't think it's right that people who come here on a work permit automattically think they are entittle to citizenry.
After all are Caymanians when they go to Canada or the U.S?
I will state again..it's the warm climate people are greedy for.
Development.
I aware that the following issue might perhaps be controversial,
however the following has not been suggested earlier as far as I am aware of.
Grand Cayman really needs to catch some breath, perhaps it is time for a break?
Time to get your house in order?
Many residents are more than exhausted after rebuilding and repairing since Ivan, and many are still repairing and recovering. Tempers are running high.
Why not considering a temporary MORATORIUM (oops) on larger scale developments?
(Or at least implementing a sort of phased building approval plan?)
Single house dwellings could be excluded of course.
Some negative effects of too many large scale developments :
- Not needed at the moment (oversupply).
- Periodical scarcety of building materials, i.e. concrete, etc. (leading to increased prices?) AND Public Works can not finish projects in time for this very reason.
- Increased traffic (heavy trucks transporting and delivering building materials everywhere, obstructing traffic).
- Planning Department has a backlog and is seriously under stress.
A temporary moratorium on larger scale developments could achieve:
- Less need for imported labour (now, isn't that the BIG issue?), allowing the immigration department to catch up.
- Adequate and sufficient supply of building materials, achieving goals as required.
- Keep the real estate market (sales and rental) healthy, reducing the risk of falling prices, negative equity, etc.
- Reduced traffic.
- Planning Department gets a chance to eliminate the backlog, and study the development proposals in depth.
Thickle your brains and dismiss, add, judge ...
Sure, a small part of the population (the wealthy investors,
Caymanians and expats alike) are not likely to be pleased with such measure.
But it is not unlikely that such measure would meet the approval and get the support of a large part of the electorate?
The finanical consequences should not be ignored, and could be significant to the country and it's residents.
- Reduced revenue from the real estate sector (planning approvals, transfer duty on sales,etc.).
- Less new workpermit approvals (and perhaps renewals).
- Reduced income from duty and fees on imports: reduced building materials import, likely a reduced population (less consumption affecting government and businesses).
- Etc.
I am not an economist and I am not in real estate and I am not a good writer.
Just thinking ...
I am looking forward to see some comments regarding the above.
What are your thoughts, ideas?
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